One Piece Pirate Nation

AU One Piece Roleplay

Travel to islands within Paradise temporarily no longer requires a Log Pose or timer/wc. A post to signify travel is still required however.

Log in

I forgot my password



Latest topics
» Activity Check [ July]
Today at 10:24 pm by Shiro Akamine

» Welcome to Paradise! Travel
Today at 10:23 pm by Haba

» Cursed Wheel
Today at 10:22 pm by Admin

» News Coo [July-August Edition]
Today at 10:21 pm by Kincaid

» Staff Request|Misc
Today at 10:18 pm by Kincaid

» Dials, Dials and Boots...
Today at 10:03 pm by paperiguana

» Cloudy with a chance of Explosions [Open]
Today at 9:50 pm by Freyr Preben

» The Heavenly Clean up
Today at 9:31 pm by The Jade Emperor

» The Worst Haoshoku Haki Perks
Today at 8:14 pm by Orange.

Statistics
We have 1027 registered users
The newest registered user is Fluffy

Our users have posted a total of 59604 messages in 7835 subjects
Affiliates
Our Button

Vote For Us

Affiliates



You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 Disptteeeee on Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:17 am


Spoiler:
Perception definition:
the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

Perception excerpt from rules:
Perception deals with your senses…

Ken haki excerpts from rules:
Observational Haki encompasses abilities which have much to do with sight, perception, sensing danger

Sixth Sense - Sixth Sense allows the user to feel those...

You’ve used the sixth sense haki ability here as some sort of bypass over the fact that Ren has perception non prioritised. Sixth sense itself tells you that it is a sense - you ‘feel’ people. Both the formal definition and the site description of perception describe perception as dealing with senses. The way you have written, it is like Ren has been tracking Ro the whole time through her flight, aware of her the whole time and timing the reacting hao just at the right time.

“He'd had activated his Busoshoku Haki at maximum power, S-Rank, just prior to her ditching the aircraft” So he knew that he was going to be attacked even before she started flying? This is some incredibly precise sensing for someone who is (effectively) three levels of perception below Ro’s speed.

“Being a seasoned warrior, he knew how to go about fighting without blatant killing intent in his body. For that reason his own assault on the woman would be a surprise that not even she was ready for.” You continue this language by asserting that Ren is in complete control of himself and the situation this whole time. There is definitely no wavering or shock found here.

I would also like to point out how unrealistic that this lack of ‘blatant killing intent’ is undetectable to Ro’s kami haki, given that Ren’s state in the previous post is him being overcome with anger given the realisation of his comrade’s death. How does he suddenly become calm again in a split second?

“Should he be successful, he'd be in shock. He wouldn't have a real clue on what happened, but he wouldn't need to.” This completely contrasts with previous language. How can Ren be in control, readying himself for an attack and timing a counter in a split second window far outside of his speed class and yet be in complete shock and having no idea what is happening? These two things are mutually exclusive.

However, I do agree with this quote. Ren is slow and unperceptive (both non prioritised) and Ro is fast and perceptive (both VII). He wouldn’t be able to time a picture perfect hao blast in the time between when Ro comes into range and when he gets hit by her skill. Most likely, he would be watching the same thing he was watching a split second earlier, aka a small boat far in the distance being ripped up, especially being overcome with anger as highlighted by the previous NPCer.

Being aware of her being in haki range somewhere is obviously given with sixth sense, but having the precision to blast her with hao just in that tiny amount of time given his stats is ridiculous. It's not about the information not being available to him, it is that he simply can't process it in time. Just like how something moving to fast to see is still there and would be able to be seen through a slowmo camera, sixth sense is still just a sensory input that has to be understood by the brain for it to have any meaning to the individual.


Second point is about Ren ignoring her attack damage. Not sure how he did that, I assume it was from the buso haki t4 defensive skill. It would make sense had Ro not powered up her spark with her magnitude amplifier, adding two tiers of damage and interaction strength to her t5 skill. This would overpower his haki and natural durability, vapourising him on contact.


Sry for the long post, cheers for the modding as always.


Ro had carved a massive hole in the airship, General Ren Actimel having been evaporated into nothing. Her haki still stretched on, taking the rest of the situation into account. Was that it? Was it over? Or maybe she was seeing things, and the fates were still deciding her current situation. Regardless of the outcome, she knew she had lived true to herself and her goals, hoping that if she failed, she would have still been recognised for her efforts.

Ro would fly inside and order the surrender of everyone inside the bridge, just as she had said before.

(I wanna write more if I can get a confirmation).

View user profile

2 Dispute on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:24 pm

Link to topic: http://op-piratenation.forumotion.com/t7948-mother-of-dragons-event
Participants involved: myself and nice
Post numbers involved: 7 and 8
Rules allegedly broken: stuff outlined in spoiler of last post.

Putting this in disputes as requested, all deets are in my spoiler. Am on phone for next couple of days.

Cheers.

View user profile

3 Re: Dispute on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:46 pm

moved the dispute post to the appropriate place. don't crowd the ic topic with ooc stuff with such a large volume. that's what this area and topic is for.

View user profile

4 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:26 am

i did the most recent npc post, so imma counter what the dispute is with what i feel, then let an unaffiliated mod hop in and give the call. just hopped in the topic, so u wouldn't be waiting forever, so it's choppy form the last ones cuz it's a different poster who read the topic in one sitting then posted right after. moving on.

Deep Rokuju wrote:

Spoiler:
Perception definition:
the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

Perception excerpt from rules:
Perception deals with your senses…

Ken haki excerpts from rules:
Observational Haki encompasses abilities which have much to do with sight, perception, sensing danger

Sixth Sense - Sixth Sense allows the user to feel those...

You’ve used the sixth sense haki ability here as some sort of bypass over the fact that Ren has perception non prioritised. Sixth sense itself tells you that it is a sense - you ‘feel’ people. Both the formal definition and the site description of perception describe perception as dealing with senses. The way you have written, it is like Ren has been tracking Ro the whole time through her flight, aware of her the whole time and timing the reacting hao just at the right time. yes, he'd be able to feel u. would he be able to make sense of all ur actions and speed sense ur moving at t7 speed. No. But he'd still be able to feel u and be generally aware of where u are within reason. We see Raeleigh counter the Pika Pika in close quarters with Ken Haki and in canon it's the speed of light.
While Pika Pika is the Light Logia it does not move at the speed of light here, fruits with static speeds like the Light, Sound, and Lightning fruit automatically move at the speeds listed below.
Assuming Raeleigh (however u spell homie's name) is a haki master (SS-Rank), that's feasible. Ren is S-Rank, so that's a disadvantage, but u also aren't speed of light. A disadvantage to btoh of us when compared to the canon reference. But still Raeleigh was able to counter the Pika Pika on even grounds being a Haki Master vs Speed of Light. While we are almost haki master vs almost speed of light. So basically just a level down from Raeleigh vs Kizaru is how i see it and canon kinda supports my case.

“He'd had activated his Busoshoku Haki at maximum power, S-Rank, just prior to her ditching the aircraft” So he knew that he was going to be attacked even before she started flying? This is some incredibly precise sensing for someone who is (effectively) three levels of perception below Ro’s speed. it doesn't say "because" It's just a timestamp action. The two are unrelated. So time wise right before u'd ditch the aircraft, he'd activate haki, but even if u canceled on ditching it, he'd still do it. it's not worded to be be him reacting to what u did and shouldn't be perceived as such.

“Being a seasoned warrior, he knew how to go about fighting without blatant killing intent in his body. For that reason his own assault on the woman would be a surprise that not even she was ready for.” You continue this language by asserting that Ren is in complete control of himself and the situation this whole time. There is definitely no wavering or shock found here. this paragraph goes with the one below, so i'll respond to btoh as a whole further below.

I would also like to point out how unrealistic that this lack of ‘blatant killing intent’ is undetectable to Ro’s kami haki, given that Ren’s state in the previous post is him being overcome with anger given the realisation of his comrade’s death. How does he suddenly become calm again in a split second? Again, i read the topic and posted in one sitting. It was a mouth full, but I feel this isn't as unrealistic or unreasonable as u think it is.

He's a Tier 5 character and 36 years old. Not old or anything, but that's some time and can be seen as giving him battle experience. The next part is kinda gonna expose a hole in my post, but w.e. if it's a problem i'll defend it.


Blatant wrote:
completely lacking in subtlety; very obvious.
"Without blatant" would mean it wouldn't be obvious according to the definition of the word "blatant" does that mean it's completely gone or inexistent? No it doesn't. It's just not as apparent. So no he's not suddenly completely calm within the course of a second. Even then, when you're fighting one of the main principals is to not let one's emotions get the best of them. Ren is 36 and Tier 5. Pretty sure he'd be aware of the fact he shouldn't just be attacking on sheer emotion, especially when the enemy is someone who's moving faster than he can see.

“Should he be successful, he'd be in shock. He wouldn't have a real clue on what happened, but he wouldn't need to.” This completely contrasts with previous language. How can Ren be in control, readying himself for an attack and timing a counter in a split second window far outside of his speed class and yet be in complete shock and having no idea what is happening? These two things are mutually exclusive. he'd be surprised that he was successful. You can be devoted and focused on accomplishing a task, but not have complete faith in it working out how u want it to and be surprised when it does. Or the fact that he can't see what his enemy is doing and he's solely relying on his haki.

However, I do agree with this quote. Ren is slow and unperceptive (both non prioritised) and Ro is fast and perceptive (both VII). He wouldn’t be able to time a picture perfect hao blast in the time between when Ro comes into range and when he gets hit by her skill. Most likely, he would be watching the same thing he was watching a split second earlier, aka a small boat far in the distance being ripped up, especially being overcome with anger as highlighted by the previous NPCer. he doesn't need split second timing. two supporting quotes from the post.

NPC wrote:
Despite this he had time to act with his Hakis, which required nothing but mental commands that could be issued in fractions upon fractions of seconds.


NPC wrote:
The moment he felt her come within 30m of him, he'd release a wave of the rarest haki there was.


The moment he felt her come within the vicinity he'd go for the hao. Feeling and doing are two different things. Perceive, then react, not both at once. I think ur saying, "how'd he react right when she made it within 30m of him" this shuts that down.

Even then, my Raeleigh argument kinda covers this. Haki Mster vs Speed of light = efficient countering. Almost/not Haki Master vs Almost/not speed of light = efficient countering??? *eye emoji* There's also the point that Raeleigh was countering Kizaru with actual physical actions and movement, meanwhile Ren is just using Haki which doesn't require him actually moving, just him setting the hakis off . . . so yeah.


Being aware of her being in haki range somewhere is obviously given with sixth sense, but having the precision to blast her with hao just in that tiny amount of time given his stats is ridiculous. It's not about the information not being available to him, it is that he simply can't process it in time. all addressed with raeleigh argument and a bit below too.Just like how something moving to fast to see is still there and would be able to be seen through a slowmo camera, sixth sense is still just a sensory input that has to be understood by the brain for it to have any meaning to the individual. u quoted perception at one point, but left something out. Sure he's non-prioritzed, but he naturally has 4 perception. Then with hawk eye, he has 5. Ur not invisible to him like I feel like u think u are. May be wrong, don't bite my head off if i am, but yeah. Ur a blur and that's to his eyes. I'd imagine tracking someone via haki is much easier considering u don't have to actually use ur eyes, but u feel beings that are in the scope of it.


Second point is about Ren ignoring her attack damage. Not sure how he did that, I assume it was from the buso haki t4 defensive skill. It would make sense had Ro not powered up her spark with her magnitude amplifier, adding two tiers of damage and interaction strength to her t5 skill. This would overpower his haki and natural durability, vapourising him on contact. u honestly have so much in ur spoiler that doesn't break it down for the actual reader, but is just there to be logged by u or shown that it exist, that i didn't notice all that. But his buso haki was a t4 defensive skill. u used a t5 skill. Then +2??? T6 is max, pretty sure T7 has never existed. But even then, just because the defense is bypassed doesn't mean that the skill still is at "full power" if i throw a punch with t5 strength and someone uses a t3 defensive skill (t4 power) the punch wouldn't be fully defended, but it would be reduced in power. not trying to demean or trash talk just don't know another way to word it. But that's common sense.


Then regardless, even if he didn't release hao right when u were 30m away. It's not a stretch to say he released it shortly after or even with or after ur attack. (for reasons above, he'd not be vaporized, [don't know why i approved the skill with that much power anyways)] But the realeigh argument is pretty solid and supports ken vs pika pika pretty well.



Sry for the long post, cheers for the modding as always.


Ro had carved a massive hole in the airship, General Ren Actimel having been evaporated into nothing. Her haki still stretched on, taking the rest of the situation into account. Was that it? Was it over? Or maybe she was seeing things, and the fates were still deciding her current situation. Regardless of the outcome, she knew she had lived true to herself and her goals, hoping that if she failed, she would have still been recognised for her efforts.

Ro would fly inside and order the surrender of everyone inside the bridge, just as she had said before.

(I wanna write more if I can get a confirmation).

View user profile

5 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:02 am

Aight there's a lot here so ima wait til I can get back to a computer to reply, am still confident about my position.

Cheers for the reply.

View user profile

6 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:45 am

this'll just go back and forth forever. I think i'm right, you think you're right. Pointless to just keep quoting a post and replying. just let the mod rule on it, so it can be done and over with

View user profile

7 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:53 am

Kincaid

Revolutionary Leader
Revolutionary Leader

avatar
Futura Free wrote:i did the most recent npc post, so imma counter what the dispute is with what i feel, then let an unaffiliated mod hop in and give the call. just hopped in the topic, so u wouldn't be waiting forever, so it's choppy form the last ones cuz it's a different poster who read the topic in one sitting then posted right after. moving on.

Deep Rokuju wrote:

Spoiler:
Perception definition:
the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

Perception excerpt from rules:
Perception deals with your senses…

Ken haki excerpts from rules:
Observational Haki encompasses abilities which have much to do with sight, perception, sensing danger

Sixth Sense - Sixth Sense allows the user to feel those...

You’ve used the sixth sense haki ability here as some sort of bypass over the fact that Ren has perception non prioritised. Sixth sense itself tells you that it is a sense - you ‘feel’ people. Both the formal definition and the site description of perception describe perception as dealing with senses. The way you have written, it is like Ren has been tracking Ro the whole time through her flight, aware of her the whole time and timing the reacting hao just at the right time. yes, he'd be able to feel u. would he be able to make sense of all ur actions and speed sense ur moving at t7 speed. No. But he'd still be able to feel u and be generally aware of where u are within reason. We see Raeleigh counter the Pika Pika in close quarters with Ken Haki and in canon it's the speed of light.
While Pika Pika is the Light Logia it does not move at the speed of light here, fruits with static speeds like the Light, Sound, and Lightning fruit automatically move at the speeds listed below.
Assuming Raeleigh (however u spell homie's name) is a haki master (SS-Rank), that's feasible. Ren is S-Rank, so that's a disadvantage, but u also aren't speed of light. A disadvantage to btoh of us when compared to the canon reference. But still Raeleigh was able to counter the Pika Pika on even grounds being a Haki Master vs Speed of Light. While we are almost haki master vs almost speed of light. So basically just a level down from Raeleigh vs Kizaru is how i see it and canon kinda supports my case.

“He'd had activated his Busoshoku Haki at maximum power, S-Rank, just prior to her ditching the aircraft” So he knew that he was going to be attacked even before she started flying? This is some incredibly precise sensing for someone who is (effectively) three levels of perception below Ro’s speed. it doesn't say "because" It's just a timestamp action. The two are unrelated. So time wise right before u'd ditch the aircraft, he'd activate haki, but even if u canceled on ditching it, he'd still do it. it's not worded to be be him reacting to what u did and shouldn't be perceived as such. Ponch's argument is valid.

“Being a seasoned warrior, he knew how to go about fighting without blatant killing intent in his body. For that reason his own assault on the woman would be a surprise that not even she was ready for.” You continue this language by asserting that Ren is in complete control of himself and the situation this whole time. There is definitely no wavering or shock found here. this paragraph goes with the one below, so i'll respond to btoh as a whole further below.

I would also like to point out how unrealistic that this lack of ‘blatant killing intent’ is undetectable to Ro’s kami haki, given that Ren’s state in the previous post is him being overcome with anger given the realisation of his comrade’s death. How does he suddenly become calm again in a split second? Again, i read the topic and posted in one sitting. It was a mouth full, but I feel this isn't as unrealistic or unreasonable as u think it is.

He's a Tier 5 character and 36 years old. Not old or anything, but that's some time and can be seen as giving him battle experience. The next part is kinda gonna expose a hole in my post, but w.e. if it's a problem i'll defend it.
This is a bit of stretch and over assumption on Ponch's case. Granted he did come in in the middle of the topic so it's fair that he may have missed some minor details. From posts previous to Ponch taking over, Ren is not in a perfectly calm state. That doesn't mean he's a raging lunatic acting only on emotion, but he isn't completely stoic and unreadable.

Blatant wrote:
completely lacking in subtlety; very obvious.
"Without blatant" would mean it wouldn't be obvious according to the definition of the word "blatant" does that mean it's completely gone or inexistent? No it doesn't. It's just not as apparent. So no he's not suddenly completely calm within the course of a second. Even then, when you're fighting one of the main principals is to not let one's emotions get the best of them. Ren is 36 and Tier 5. Pretty sure he'd be aware of the fact he shouldn't just be attacking on sheer emotion, especially when the enemy is someone who's moving faster than he can see.

“Should he be successful, he'd be in shock. He wouldn't have a real clue on what happened, but he wouldn't need to.” This completely contrasts with previous language. How can Ren be in control, readying himself for an attack and timing a counter in a split second window far outside of his speed class and yet be in complete shock and having no idea what is happening? These two things are mutually exclusive. he'd be surprised that he was successful. You can be devoted and focused on accomplishing a task, but not have complete faith in it working out how u want it to and be surprised when it does. Or the fact that he can't see what his enemy is doing and he's solely relying on his haki.

However, I do agree with this quote. Ren is slow and unperceptive (both non prioritised) and Ro is fast and perceptive (both VII). He wouldn’t be able to time a picture perfect hao blast in the time between when Ro comes into range and when he gets hit by her skill. Most likely, he would be watching the same thing he was watching a split second earlier, aka a small boat far in the distance being ripped up, especially being overcome with anger as highlighted by the previous NPCer. he doesn't need split second timing. two supporting quotes from the post. Agreed you don't need split second timing especially with Ken Haki activated. Hao Haki, like other Hakis, can be seen as a reflex. You don't need to think to activate it, as you would maybe need to think to throw a precise punch.

NPC wrote:
Despite this he had time to act with his Hakis, which required nothing but mental commands that could be issued in fractions upon fractions of seconds.


NPC wrote:
The moment he felt her come within 30m of him, he'd release a wave of the rarest haki there was.


The moment he felt her come within the vicinity he'd go for the hao. Feeling and doing are two different things. Perceive, then react, not both at once. I think ur saying, "how'd he react right when she made it within 30m of him" this shuts that down.

Even then, my Raeleigh argument kinda covers this. Haki Mster vs Speed of light = efficient countering. Almost/not Haki Master vs Almost/not speed of light = efficient countering??? *eye emoji* There's also the point that Raeleigh was countering Kizaru with actual physical actions and movement, meanwhile Ren is just using Haki which doesn't require him actually moving, just him setting the hakis off . . . so yeah.  


Being aware of her being in haki range somewhere is obviously given with sixth sense, but having the precision to blast her with hao just in that tiny amount of time given his stats is ridiculous. It's not about the information not being available to him, it is that he simply can't process it in time. all addressed with raeleigh argument and a bit below too.Just like how something moving to fast to see is still there and would be able to be seen through a slowmo camera, sixth sense is still just a sensory input that has to be understood by the brain for it to have any meaning to the individual. u quoted perception at one point, but left something out. Sure he's non-prioritzed, but he naturally has 4 perception. Then with hawk eye, he has 5. Ur not invisible to him like I feel like u think u are. May be wrong, don't bite my head off if i am, but yeah. Ur a blur and that's to his eyes. I'd imagine tracking someone via haki is much easier considering u don't have to actually use ur eyes, but u feel beings that are in the scope of it.
Proving Ponch's argument this is taken directly from the Attribute Rules:

Any movements that occur on a Speed Tier higher than someone's Perception simply appear as a blur to that character. So if you have 2 Perception and your opponent kicks at Tier 3 Speeds, that kick will be a blur. This does not mean you can't react to it still, but your eyes will not be able to clearly make out the movement.

The degree of the blur is always the same regardless of how many tiers above you in Speed the movement is. That is until we get to movements that occur at a Speed 3 Tiers above your Perception.


Second point is about Ren ignoring her attack damage. Not sure how he did that, I assume it was from the buso haki t4 defensive skill. It would make sense had Ro not powered up her spark with her magnitude amplifier, adding two tiers of damage and interaction strength to her t5 skill. This would overpower his haki and natural durability, vapourising him on contact. u honestly have so much in ur spoiler that doesn't break it down for the actual reader, but is just there to be logged by u or shown that it exist, that i didn't notice all that. But his buso haki was a t4 defensive skill. u used a t5 skill. Then +2??? T6 is max, pretty sure T7 has never existed. But even then, just because the defense is bypassed doesn't mean that the skill still is at "full power" if i throw a punch with t5 strength and someone uses a t3 defensive skill (t4 power) the punch wouldn't be fully defended, but it would be reduced in power. not trying to demean or trash talk just don't know another way to word it. But that's common sense.


Then regardless, even if he didn't release hao right when u were 30m away. It's not a stretch to say he released it shortly after or even with or after ur attack. (for reasons above, he'd not be vaporized, [don't know why i approved the skill with that much power anyways)] But the realeigh argument is pretty solid and supports ken vs pika pika pretty well.
So here is where it gets tricky because Ro's MDL hasn't been updated for...awhile. Basically the vaporization would break through the T3 Haki, correct. However, Ponch's argument is valid. Someone makes a wall and the attacker punches through it, that punch is going to lose some momentum and power. So T6 vs T3 wall (Haki; really a T4 wall because T3 Defensive Skill = T4 Defense) in this case, drops it down to arguably T3 (maybe even T2) in damage. Your T3 MDL says that it Partially destroys Steel, but has no mention of Titanium. Factoring in Ren's T5 Durability, his skin is naturally as hard as Titanium. So basically, he might be lightly burned, but he isn't reduced to ash at Ro's feet :/


As far as my overall ruling goes, I'd say Ponch's post is valid but there could be some possible wiggle room for Deep to change actions in response to seeing Ren's (while not killing intent per say) at least emotions with her Ken Haki. Should the Hao go through it would knock out both Deep and any of Ren's subordinates around him, sending them all down into the water. Damage received from Ro's attack would be minimal due to Buso + Secondary Durability combination.


Sry for the long post, cheers for the modding as always.


Ro had carved a massive hole in the airship, General Ren Actimel having been evaporated into nothing. Her haki still stretched on, taking the rest of the situation into account. Was that it? Was it over? Or maybe she was seeing things, and the fates were still deciding her current situation. Regardless of the outcome, she knew she had lived true to herself and her goals, hoping that if she failed, she would have still been recognised for her efforts.

Ro would fly inside and order the surrender of everyone inside the bridge, just as she had said before.

(I wanna write more if I can get a confirmation).

View user profile

8 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:31 am

Like I said, I believe I have a good case and that you have missed some things. Give me a chance to comment on your points when I actually have access to some resources.

Thank you Smile

View user profile

9 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:24 pm

Alrighty, thanks for waiting for me.


So there are two points of contention here. The first being that of being able to perceive Ro enough to be able to use his hao haki in the way that he does.

First I would like to notify you guys of my Will of Light passive, which reduces the enemy’s perception by 1 when attempting to observe Ro or her actions/abilities. Meaning that even with the hawk eye buff, Ren would be at 4 perception, making the difference between her speed and his perception 3. This means that there would be no blur and hence my writing as though he couldn’t see her at all.

My initial argument on this point was that perception is required to make an accurate judgement of a user’s speed and that haki does not bypass that requirement. As I said in my initial claim, it is given that he would be aware of her due to his haki, and I am not claiming otherwise. Futura’s counter argument used the example of the Rayleigh vs Kizaru fight as an example to say that someone with a high haki tier is able to keep up with high speeds, regardless of their perception level. Kincaid didn’t comment on the usage in this example (only on the perception level interaction part) so I’d like to have a mod’s opinion on whether his point holds up, taking into consideration this next part.

My problem with the usage of the Kizaru vs Rayleigh is this - we don’t really know much about what they were using. How do we know what Rayleigh’s perception level was? Given his supposed power level, there’s a good chance it is high. We don’t even know if he is using haki in the first place, even though it is likely that he is. Truth is, we don’t know where his ability to keep up with Kizaru is coming from so it isn’t any good in this dispute.

Does ken haki help with perceiving? Absolutely. This has already been accounted for with the hawk’s eye perk. What it doesn’t do is allow someone with tier 1 perception to whack on ken and have no disadvantage in perceiving an individual moving at tier 7. In fact, the staff team nerfed the perception bonuses gained with ken recently, deciding for themselves that people shouldn’t gain so many free stats from hawk’s eye. But with this argument, Futura is saying that ken can be used to perceive people regardless of the stat matchups, thereby going against his/his team's past line of thought when making that decision. Surely if his argument held, there would be something in the haki rules to say which tier of haki grants you the ability to perceive which speed.

Just because hao doesnt take time, doesn't mean you don't need split second timing for this use of it. What you have attempted in the topic is like a normal human clicking their finger at the exact time a flying bullet would hit them. Maybe they'd be aware of the bullet due to hearing the gun go off (just like Ren would be aware of Ro) but there is no reasonable way that he could hit this timing without extreme luck.


The next point of contention is the damage that Ren takes, where I believe you have misrepresented what common sense is. Does it ‘make’ sense that the damage would be reduced? Sure. But that is not the only model that makes sense. The one that I have used, and the one that is backed up by the rules, is that of an attack overpowering another and busting through unimpeded.

To use canon as reference, I would talk about Luffy’s king kong gun vs Doflamingo’s final attack. Both of these attacks were the strongest that each had between two similarly strong people. If we had to put these skills into the site’s system, they would probably be t4 and t5 (king kong gun is t5), but regardless of what tier, they wouldn’t be more different than 1 tier. Yet the matchup shown in the manga is that the king kong gun smashes straight through and hits its target unimpeded, to cause collateral damage on a scale not seen from luffy before. It was definitely not reduced to a tier 3 level of damage.
manga panel

Regardless of this, I am not adverse to your common sense rule, as it does make sense. But it is not something that is supported by your rules.
defensive skills:
“Defense Skills are Skills that are normally used in a Defensive nature. This doesn't limit them to not being able to cause harm, but that is not their primary function. Something like erecting a wall or Tekkai is a Defensive Skill. Defensive Skills are special because they can block Skills that are a Tier higher than their own Tier, counter two Skills that are equally Tiered, three Skills that are two Tiers lower, then an infinite amount of Skills that are any Tier lower than that. Busoshoku Haki operates like a Defensive Skill.”
There is nothing to suggest that there should be some sort of reduction in output from an overpowering offensive skill. Because of this, Kincaid has had to whip up some calculations to support this without having a method in the rules to say he should. Surely something as important as how much damage someone takes after skill interaction would be in the rules if your argument was indeed intended when they were written. I don’t mind using this common sense thinking moving forward, but I believe it should have some basis in the rules first.


Overall, My rationale comes from the text in the rules topics, as that is what has been provided by staff. I believe your arguments are not supported in this way and that your canon reference and common sense argument does not hold up.


I appreciate this time to speak my mind.
Cheers.



Last edited by Deep Rokuju on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user profile

10 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:50 pm

all imma say is regardless, the hao if logical. u can be sensed. even if u are moving super fast etc etc, ur in the scope of ken, so u can be sensed with ken, maybe not with eyes, but with ken. moving on with that, he'd be able to hao u, which he attempted to. the timing and range is lined up to hit u. whether it is a bit late or not, u'll get slept either before, during, or after ur attack. Kin is the mod on this, so ur comment about getting a mod is left field. one is already here.

View user profile

11 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:03 pm

Ken is something that allows sensing, it is a sixth sense. Just like eyes allow sensing, it requires preception to make sense of the info. Otherwise the whole point of perception as a stat becomes meaningless after ken is acquired. But I guess that's what we need ruling on.

View user profile

12 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:20 pm

floyd pls someone save this from going on any longer. perception itself says nothing about being needed to make sense of information. perception is using ur senses to experience things going on around u. analyzing would be making sense of the information, an attribute that we don't have and something that isn't even alluded to. even then the perception attribute reads

This does not mean you can't react to it still, but your eyes will not be able to clearly make out the movement.


ur argument is basically boiling down to. I'm moving fast, so he shouldn't be able to react in time. at least that's how i'm seeing it. But again, u'll probs reply anyways. but we'll wait for the mod to post on it and rule. u think ur right, i think i'm right. So w.e. i say to u, u probs won't agree with and vice versa. a.k.a. pointless to go back and forth.

View user profile

13 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:28 pm

Indominus

Pappa Smexy
Pappa Smexy

avatar
Give me a hour or two. And I'll have a verdict.


_________________

Fifth Power
View user profile

14 Re: Dispute on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:18 pm

Indominus

Pappa Smexy
Pappa Smexy

avatar
I have not read the actually topic but just this dispute, just so people know. Also I will not be making a long response on what happened and who was right or whatever. I will comment on the attack from Ro first. Even if Ren has high durability and reduces the attack, which I agree with, everything else around him would not and he'd be plummeting down to whatever is below him. Though, he may take more damage if the skill was still going after his haki was penetrated. Which could interrupt any action he takes after that. Even with that if he senses you coming into range, no matter how fast, he would be able to send out his Hao haki. You also in turn would be able to sense the danger of something like that about to come your way; though you getting out of it would be tough but possible with your speed. And even if you are hit with Hao you still will have enough time to at least pull of something either a attack or some small maneuver.


_________________

Fifth Power
View user profile

15 Re: Dispute on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:29 am

Alright, thanks for the modding peeps. I've got some stuff on atm but will hopefully have the post up in the next few days.

View user profile

16 Re: Dispute on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:15 pm

http://op-piratenation.forumotion.com/t7948-mother-of-dragons-event#61830 claiming hits. Rokuju enters Haki range. Says the character senses the threat of the haki which is only viable if u are at risk of getting hurt per site description. last post NPC stated to use Haki if Rokuju came into range. Even if the "sensing the haki" part is taken away, the character still enters Haki range.

View user profile

17 Re: Dispute on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:51 pm

"character senses the threat of the haki which is only viable if u are at risk of getting hurt per site description"
False. Here is what the haki rules say:
haki rules:

Sixth Sense - Sixth Sense allows the user to feel those who are around them, even if they aren’t visually looking at them. This alertness allows the user to sense and perceive incoming danger within its range of effect based on the amount of intentional killing intent coming from the assailant. Regardless of the amount of people or objects present, this type of sensory cannot be overloaded with information. This ability to perceive a threat undetected by conventional senses only applies to intentional attacks from beings with their own consciousness.
There is no mention of having to risk being hurt at all. Only 'danger' and 'threat', which certainly includes getting knocked out via conq.

Kincaid wrote:I'd say Ponch's post is valid but there could be some possible wiggle room for Deep to change actions in response to seeing Ren's (while not killing intent per say) at least emotions with her Ken Haki.

Indominus wrote:You also in turn would be able to sense the danger of something like that about to come your way; though you getting out of it would be tough but possible with your speed.

Despite being ruled against, I've conformed to the ruling that both mods have given. They've said that I have the ability to do this.

View user profile

18 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:13 am

incoming danger means danger that is coming your way. That means the danger is existent and you are at risk of being hit. You can't be in danger if the danger doesn't exist yet. Same with perceive a threat. Like I said, I already denied your future sight perk, so why would i allow future sight with basic haki that everyone has? The wording is slightly ambiguous and can be interpreted to allow future sight, but it doesn't and that was even something you yourself were specifically told prior to this altercation.

all Kin's quote is saying is u'd be able to sense Ren's emotions. nothing about the usage of the haki.

Sabo's quoted ruling contradicts the haki on the site, so that can't be used in your defense. While moderator rulings are official, obviously if they are incorrect and don't use the systems correctly that part of their ruling should be disregarded.

despite all of this with the ken sensing, the rest of my post still would make it so Rokuju is hit. soooooo, whenever someone wants to wrap this up, that'd be great.

View user profile

19 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:09 am

I have never claimed future sight in my post. Not only that, I have never tried to app such a perk.

futura free wrote:this'll just go back and forth forever. I think i'm right, you think you're right. Pointless to just keep quoting a post and replying. just let the mod rule on it, so it can be done and over with
You posted twice with talk like this, but I guess it doesn't count when you do it. I can put up with your arrogance and disrespect directed at me but trying to overrule a mods ruling as a participant is out of line. Our whole discussion in this topic has been about how haki rules are to be applied, you cant just whitewash the ruling especially when you yourself have created arguments that conflict with how the rules are written. Your hypocrisy is astounding.

View user profile

20 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:27 pm

had a super big post saying this and that and how ur wrong and w.e. else, but u'll probs be like "I thought this was pointless" see me how u see me, don't care. Imma just say 3 things.

1 It's an NPC fight, not even my real character. I'm not even a prideful or cocky person and don't take RP losses no type of way unless i'm against a friend. So ultimately I don't have any real reason to try to rig this fight in my favor like you're hinting at I think.

2 [7/22/17, 12:51:05 AM] Siab .: how is what I said contradicting what the haki on the site is?
[7/22/17, 12:51:44 AM] outforlunch: sense the danger of something like that about to come your way
[7/22/17, 12:51:52 AM] outforlunch: that can be interpreted as future sight
[7/22/17, 12:52:01 AM] outforlunch: it’s the way someone can perceive
[7/22/17, 12:52:32 AM] Siab .: that isn't what I meant when I said that
[7/22/17, 12:52:45 AM] outforlunch: yeah it can be seen two diff ways

I only use admin intervention when a mod is believed to be saying "this is how the rules work" and they are wrong. Other than that I'm saying what i believe is right, just like you are. I wasn't trying to overrule and wipe Sabo's ruling because "omg i gotta win". I did it to protect the integrity of the systems, so down the line someone wouldn't use this dispute as a reference point, because I failed to clear up that there is no "future sight" or "forewarning" with haki on the site.

3 This isn't a video game where systems are concrete and regardless of how they can be read, the game will still work the same way for everyone. It's rp where the rules are written out and people rp with their own idea of how the rules work based on how they are written. Disagreements are bound to come up, so what. Combat rp is about arguing, so no need to take the opposition personal or as an act of disrespect. Phrases in systems can be seen one way or another way, then be applied accordingly and turn out to be wrong. Systems in rp are about trial and error. Notice a flaw and fix it after it's pointed out. Can't really see all the flaws right when the system is made, it needs to be driven then fixed accordingly.

I guess I'll also throw in. Wasn't intending to disrespect u or w.e. I don't think i name called or anything, so personally i don't know how you feel disrespected. Buuuuuut, if you do feel disrespected, I'm not in your shoes and can't say you shouldn't feel that way, then i apologize for coming off that way.

View user profile

21 Re: Dispute on Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Alright cheers mate. I appreciate your reply, no hate to you whichever way this goes. I wrote my post based on the rulings and wordings so it does seem cheap for me to be called on something when I thought that was what had been decided. Lets just get a mod in to look the stuff over and get on with it.

Cheers.

View user profile

Sponsored content



View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum